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Obamacare: pros and cons

There has been a lot of good news for Obamacare lately, which is obviously bad news for people who support Freedom, Liberty, and other capitalized words.

Glenn McCoy Monster Cartoon

Cartoon by Glenn McCoy

 

So in the interest of being fair and balanced, we have decided to present to you a side-by-side comparison of some good news headlines and quotes about Obamacare next to the bad news headlines and quotes about Obamacare.  When you look at it this way you will see that Obamacare, much like Global Warming and Evolution, is something with two points of view and obviously every perspective is valid so it’s impossible to decide anything, ever.


Pro Obamacare: “8.5 million people got an average of a $100 in rebates last year.” — CNN

Pro Obamacare: “In South Florida, 83,700 young adults have been able to stay on their parents’ insurance plan, 75,800 senior citizens are getting discounts on their medicine, and 1.4 million patients are getting preventive care without co-pays or deductibles.” — Sun-Sentinel

Pro Obamacare: “The number of double-digit rate increases requested by health insurers has plummeted over the past four years.” — Washington Post

Anti Obamacare: “Obamacare is going to make the emerging doctor shortage in America a lot worse.” — EndOfTheAmericanDream.com

Anti Obamacare: “[Obamacare] will destroy the very health and wellbeing of… millions of hardworking Americans.” — National Review

Anti Obamacare: “The Ohio Department of Insurance predicts premiums in 2014 will rise by 88 percent, a direct result of President Obama’s Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.” — Independent Journal Review

 


 

As you can see from these examples, there are just as many negative effects as there are positive effects of Obamacare. It’s pretty much up in the air, undecided, and indeterminate. Who can decide?

Of course, some people might point out out that the good points about Obamacare are things that actually have already happened, while the bad points about Obamacare are all speculations about what might or might not happen in the future.

 

But we don’t listen to those people… they just have liberal bias.

 
38 Comments  comments 

38 Responses

  1. Rebecca Smith

    Brilliant! Obamacare allowed me to stay on my parents insurance slightly longer while finishing my college degree. I’m no longer on it, as I am 26, but it was super helpful! At this point I blame myself for not having finished school yet. 🙂

  2. LC

    Wow, 100 whole dollars! What would I do with all that money?? You mean, the government spent almost a billion dollars to hand out hundred dollar rebates? Why on earth? And that is a “pro” ?

    Oh yeah, and the doctor shortage has started, FYI. Our brilliant pediatrician of 10 years had to close his doors because Obamacare put him out of business.

    Your silly conclusion that the difference between the pros and cons is that the cons have yet to happen is simply because the only cons you listed are ones that supposedly haven’t happened.
    There are plenty of cons that I know of from personal experience with friends with small businesses and doctors and those in healthcare that you either purposefully or ignorantly left out so as to make your “liberal bias” website name more accurate then not.

    But even so, a more accurate comparison would be that the pros have a minimal if any impact and the cons will be devastating.

    Ridiculous.

    • “There are plenty of cons that I know of from personal experience with friends with small businesses and doctors and those in healthcare that you either purposefully or ignorantly left out…”

      Name them.

      • LC

        Sure, as soon as you respond to any points I made.

        Also, are you serious? Is your sole news source the Huffington post?
        Are you really saying that you have heard **not one negative outcome**from obamacare that can be found in the *present*?

        Or more likely is this a “I know you are but what am I ” type of debate that I should just bow out of now.

        • If there are so many negative outcomes of Obamacare, then it should be easy to name one, right?

          I read a lot of news sources, and I listen to a lot of talk radio. But on the conservative side, nobody every mentions specifics. People ALWAYS use your strategy of saying “OMG there are so many people who have been hurt by Obamacare!!” but never a single example is given.

          If it’s really so common, then just give an example. It can’t be hard, right?

          • LC

            No it’s not hard. but once i start listing them, you are going to nitpick at them and ignore all the valid points i have already made.

            And I saw your bio, and I have a hard time believing that a fellow mathematician could really be so illogical.

            Here was my point, you said basically that all these wonderful things have happened (leading with the whopping 100 dollar windfall) and all the cons, well, there are none. Not one that has actually happened.

            Can you really be so ignorant? No, I can’t believe it, not with all your credentials. So you must be willfully deceiving your readers.

            At least be honest and say “yes, there are some cons, but none that affect me and none that I care about”

            So here is the list that you are now free to say doesn’t exist and is actually because of Bush.

            I have been hurt by losing our most beloved pediatrician. He was hurt by having to close his doors. The wait staff at Olive Garden that now have less hours so that they don’t hit the “30 hour” mark have been hurt, my friend Susan who runs a small business and had over ten thousand dollars in hikes for insurance, her business was hurt.

            That was more than one.

          • I’m sorry, LC, but:

            If your friend Susan’s PRIVATE insurance company jacked up the price of her insurance, that isn’t caused by Obamacare. Moreover, ever since a year ago when Obamacare’s provision limiting the amount that insurance companies are ALLOWED to hike rates, Obamacare is actually preventing this kind of thing from happening in the future.

            Also, the Olive Garden actually does not have to reduce people’s hours. If they feel that their employees do not deserve to get adequate health insurance from their company, then the employees can go onto the public exchange: that’s what the public exchanges are there fore.

            Finally, I simply don’t believe that your pediatrician had to close his doors “because of Obamacare.” Most health care providers HATE dealing with private insurance companies, because their staff has to constantly spend time on forms and fighting with the companies to get reimbursed for things. But this has LONG existed before Obamacare and Obamacare has nothing to do with it. Unless you can give the specific reason that Obamacare is responsible for the pediatrician closing shop, I simply don’t buy your claim.

    • Una

      Re: Doctor shortage–The shortages are largely due to Boomer retirement numbers, and other factors outside the scope of the ACA, and have been going on before the ACA even passed. The only way to increase doctor numbers is to increase student enrollment at medical schools. ACA does provide for some more grants to medical schools to encourage higher enrollment numbers, especially if the students will agree to a medicaid/medicare residency. The problem is, only people from higher socioeconomic backgrounds can afford medical school, unless grants are provided… which means… drum roll… federal spending. And who’s going to vote to increase federal spending?

      And I disagree strongly that the pros are only minimal. Tell that to my friend who has been slowly going blind for several years, but was uninsurable (Pre-existing condition), and couldn’t afford out-of-pocket doctor care to find out what’s going on. She can finally get coverage. I just hope it’s not too late for her to find a way to restore her vision. Tell that to my neighbor and her two little children, who lost their husband/daddy to a heart attack last year. He wasn’t insurable either, and couldn’t afford care, so he just kept ignoring the warning signs. By the time he finally checked himself into the emergency room, it was too late.

      ACA isn’t perfect, but we can iron out the problems. The old way of doing things was more than imperfect–it was atrociously evil.

      • LC

        Una, while the story of your neighbor is heartbreaking, are you really insinuating that now, thanks to Obamacare, no one will die because everyone will have all the care they need ? Right after you admitted we have a doctor shortage?Really? Or maybe I should introduce you to the woman I met in England who has a 100000 bill for a back surgery that she needed immediately, but had 6 month waiting list for if the government was going to cover it? For every story of someone denied care now, there will be a different person denied care later. Why don’t you eliminate poverty while you are eliminating death and sickness with Obama care?

        • Una

          Your strawman argument is that I’m saying ObamaCare will make things perfect. That’s not what I said.

          • LC

            You are missing the point, although what is a good debate without someone invoking “straw man”?

            So what is the point in mentioning your one neighbor? Because logically, this should be somewhat of a numbers game. Like how many people are really being helped by this? Because my neighbor across the street absolutely cannot afford to pay his doubled premiums, although he really should be thrilled with the maternity care he now has available, right?

            Every five minutes someone else is now saying that they cannot afford the insurance , yet, you were assuming that your neighbor that died could have actually afforded the new plan, which if he was anywhere above the poverty line, the answer would most likely be no. So yeah, he would likely still have died, but also his widow would have had to pay a fine for the insurance they couldn’t afford to buy.

        • Una

          @LC
          My point was this: you said the pros are minimal, and I used several human (not abstract) examples, which I figured would be representative of the conditions of a lot of the population, to counter your claim. Then you basically accused me of believing that Obamacare will save the entire world and solve all of our problems forever and usher in the second return of Christ, or something. (You also tried to compare ObamaCare to the British health system, though they are not at all the same thing, but I didn’t respond to that.) So I called you on your unfair attack of my supposed position.

          As far as me missing your point, well, you have made a lot of points, and you are kind of all over the place with your comments, making it a bit hard to know what to focus on, to be honest. So the only statement I can make that seems to collect your set of points into a single one is something along the lines of “Obama care is the devil incarnate, and we should throw the entire thing out.” OK, sorry to use hyperbole. I’m not trying to create a strawman out of your set of points, so correct me if I’m wrong. Am I close? You don’t see any “pros” at all?

          • LC

            I don’t have time to go over each point and try to connect them for you, so let me just cover one. Your example was absolutely abstract as in you have no idea of obamacare would have actually helped in those instances as I clearly explained.

          • LC

            Ok, had a minute, and darned it all of the teacher in me just can’t give up on educating people.

            You said “do you really not see any pros at all?????”

            Huh? I Never ever ever said that. Nope. Of course it benefits some people, but also NOT passing ObamaCare benefits some people (arguably most) now what?

            BUT I have to ask if you read the article? Because the WHOLE POINT of most of my comments was to point out that THERE ARE ALSO CONS. REAL NEGATIVE OUTCOMES FROM OBAMA CARE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. I am not “yelling” I just am really trying to help you understand. The author in his blog CLAIMED that all “cons” were IMAGINARY,, none had happened. You DID read that right? So the whole reason I revisited this blog, days ago, was that NOW THAT EVERY NEWS SOURCE KNOWN TO MAN is covering the CONS, I was wondering if he was willing to admit that there were CONS. You see, Uma, I am really trying to figure out if he, and all the others that claimed “this won’t affect you” are either NOT very bright, or willfully dishonest.

            I will recap to be clear. Greg said there were no cons, I said there were, he said “prove it”

            Of course there are pros. It would be stupid to say there weren’t. Almost as stupid as saying there were no cons. But here is the thing Uma, it would appear that more people are being hurt, more people will choose to pay a fine and less will be insured, so what the heck was the point of this?

  3. Belinda

    I have a small business ( self employed) . I have had a major accident without insurance ( my fault – I could NOT afford it at $ 200 per month) .
    NOW I have NO choice in the matter …I HAVE to shell out the money AND my company – WITHOUT employess – has to pay ( I’m going on a limb here by saying this-)for ” those like myself” that can’t afford it.
    So, to repeat myself and trying to make a point: I’m NOW paying for myself ( which I couldn’t afford in the beginning) and I pay for those ( like myself) that can’t afford it! How fair is this to me a small business owner ? BY THE WAY, I CREATED IS JOB FOR MYSELF DUE TO THE DOORS CLOSING At THE JOB I WAS EMPLOYED WITH that provided insurance ……
    AND I VOTED FOR for this President ( the first time only) .
    This insurance plan – in plain English – SUCKS!

    • Sorry, I’m not seeing any actual example of how you’ve been hurt by Obamacare?

      I see you complaining about how awful your private insurance situation is right now …. but it’s been that way since long before Obamacare and it has nothing to do with that. I also see you complaining about some abstract idea of “having to pay for other people”, but I’m not seeing any concrete evidence that YOUR insurance situation has gotten WORSE because of Obamacare.

      Can you be more specific?

      • Josh

        She is complaining about the FACT that she was forced to buy the insurance that she couldn’t afford. She couldn’t afford private insurance. Obamacare forces people to buy insurance, even if they can’t afford it. That is just socialism at its minimum.

        • Una

          If she is 133% or lower of the poverty line, she will be covered by Medicaid. If she is 400% or lower of the poverty line, she will be given a monthly tax refund to offset the costs. If she is 401% or higher of the poverty line, then the idea is she should be able to afford it.

  4. Belinda

    …my example of how this will ….
    When you go to the doctors office with all your ailments ….you will be told ” pick one” …..YES! My recent doctor visits are only ONE ailment ( that $35-100 co-pay per visit) and they make the next appointment ….I was told ( by different doctor offices) that this is how the New system is handling it.
    Geezzzz, have you had any major injuries lately ? I’m better off going to the one pay $145. Emergency room visit at 100 % pay out

    • That’s just a lie. I don’t know if YOU are lying, or if you’ve been lied to. But the fact is that there is nothing in Obamacare that has any provision like this at all.

    • Beth

      Nothing new about this type of billing….many Drs have been billing like this for a long time, long before Obamacare. I found out by going to my insurance company’s website and looking at the bill from the Dr office

  5. Carol

    You commentators are a bit nuts. Health Care is a human right supplied at the point if need not ability to pay. Poor people are entitled to it, and their good health benefits everyone. Obamacare is the best thing about the US. Be proud of it. If your premiums rise it is because your health care providers and insurance companies are greedy and lack integrity.

    • LC

      When you say things like “health care is a human right” it makes me wonder if you have taken that thought out to its logical conclusion. For whom? All people? All American people? To what degree. Because doctors don’t work for free. Researchers don’t work for free, and whether we do have obamacare or don’t, people will be refused care. You do realize this right? It is such a bizarre idea to me that people actually think that this will solve all health care problems. No, it will just create different ones. And different people will be rejected.

      EXAMPLES: I met a woman in England who had to pay 100,000 pounds of her own money to have a back surgery. What? How could this be? Wasn’t it her basic human right? Well, yes, the government was going to pay for it……in six months….even though her doctors told her that if she waited that long she would be paralyzed…it’s called a waiting list.

      EXAMPLE TWO: My daughter was born with a cleft palate, so I was part of a craniofacial message board. There was a teenage girl in the UK who was living and hospitalized with an infection from her surgeries that just wouldn’t heal. She was hoping and was always waiting on that elusive MRI but just couldn’t get one, meanwhile my neighbor got an MRI within a days notice.

      EXAMPLE THREE: , A Lancet Oncology global study last year found that 91.9% of Americans with the prostate cancer were still alive after five years compared to just 51.1% in the UK. With heart attacks, 40% of Britons who suffer one die from it compared to 38% in the States.

      91% in America are still alive after 5 years and what percent of those in the UK????

      40.

      Someone should really tell the other 50 PERCENT that they have a human right to better healthcare.

      http://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/aug/11/nhs-sick-healthcare-reform

  6. LC

    Greg, if you think it’s such a smart economic decision to give 8 million people a hundred dollar rebate, my sister had a better idea! We could buy the world a coke! It would only cost us about 7 billion dollars, which is less then we just spent to give 8 million people 100 bucks, and think of how happy the world would be?

    Please address how you listed this as your top “pro” for Obamacare, because if *that* is the main “pro” you have to lead with, I rest my case.

  7. Nick

    Uncommented on is that we already HAVE govt healthcare. It’s called Medicare, Medicaid, federal employees health care, state worker plans, and the pure socialist VA. We just choose not to cover everyone with these. Medicare for all was my plan, but the ACA is here to stay. If it has problems, make it better. Every other country either has govt health care or wishes they could.

  8. Robert

    To the author… Have you ever served the United States in any of the five branches? Ever been to a VA? I was medically discharged from active duty after ten years in the Marines. I’m currently 80% disabled (service-connected). I separated in originally in 04. Ended up going back in and got back out in 09 after a serious injury due to an ambush. Out of the pending claims from my original discharge, six remain active. (I was allowed to re-enter service because those particular claims were pending….) They remain pending. One of them includes shrapnel in left knee.

    You ask why I re-entered service. Simply because I maxed out within a dead end job. You see, down here in Houston, employers hire illegal aliens because they are cheap–as not one American citizen is crazy enough to compete with an illegal due to the lack of a living wage.

    So now I have fourteen pending claims (lump sum), even though I separated almost three years ago, come December. And yet everytime I visit the VA, I speak with veterans from the Vietnam era who have yet to complete their claims, which are far worse than mine.

    Obamacare is just another VA system. Soon you will find out just how bad the entire system is. Why on earth would the lawmakers of such a wonderful and rapid system exempt themselves from such a program? In fact I can’t wait for the bulk of Americans to be in my; the veterans boat because they’ve never understood it to begin with and what we have to go through to get medical care for our service-connected disabilities.

    And when you join our boat and it sinks, not only will you be in sheer disbelief, you will get to wait it out with us due to priority of sickness. Yeah, I maybe completely deaf, but not hearing crap is way down the line from those experiencing chest pain… Even though I have excessive anxiety from PTSD and receive chest pains from panic attacks… Welcome to the club losers.

    • Robert

      Basically… in a nutshell, this is ObamaCare:

      We’re going to be presented with a healthcare plan:

      – We are forced to purchase
      – And fined if we don’t
      – Which allegedly covers at least 10 million more people
      – Without adding one single, new doctor
      – but provides for 16,000 new IRS Agents
      – Written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it
      – Passed by a Congress that never read it but more importantly,
      – Exempted themselves from it
      – Signed by a President who smokes
      – With funding administered by a treasury chief who doesn’t pay his taxes
      – For which we’ll be taxed for four years before any benefits take place
      – By a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare
      – All to be overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese
      – Financed by a country that’s completely and utterly broke!

      What the hell could go wrong?

      If the government can’t even take care of it’s veterans (less than 1% of the U.S. population (American citizens minus our acquired illegal aliens), how do you expect them to take on another 320 million people?

      Get your head out of your bung “Liberal Bias” and start using the variables your professors outlined in your math major.

      Marines aren’t supposed to be smart. But you’re making me look like a scholar.

  9. Why arent you discussing Obamacare as a whole…all you liberals do is discuss the health insurance…
    Page 85 line 7…Healthcare will be rationed
    Page 167 anyone not havig healthcare will be taxes 2.5 of income
    Page 170 lines 1-3 All non-Americans will be exempted from taxes
    Page 195 Officers and health care administrators will have access to all American financial and personal records
    Page 272 Sec. 1145 treatment at certain cancer hospitals will e rationed to patients
    Page 280 If Gov. deems admission to hospital is preventable hospital will be fined
    Page 318 Line 21-25 Gov. mandates hospital expansions
    Page 341 lines 3-9 Gov. has authority to disqualify medical plans, HMO’s etc.
    Page 354 Sec. 1177 Gov. will restrict enrollment od special needs
    Page 419 Line 412 Seniors may be interviewed annually and decisions made on what health care they can and cannot have.
    Page 425-426 Gov. will provide approved list of end-of-life resources
    Page Page 427 Government will mandate programs for end-of life
    Page 430 Gov. will decide what treatment you will recieve at end-of-life
    Page 1308 Gov. will cover all marriage and family therapy
    Page 494 Gov. will ration all mental health needs
    these are just some of the things in the obamacare law that liberals won’t mention

    • LC

      Victor, please don’t waster their time with actual facts, and information. After all, millions of people got a hundred dollars! Don’t you see how that changed everything?

  10. LC

    Millions of people are losing their insurance or having their premiums doubled. Is that a con? I mean, now that even huffpo is kind of covering it, are you going to admit that there might be “cons”? Over these last few days I have been wondering, “who on earth believed Obama when he said “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan?” Is anyone really that clueless? And then I remembered you, did you believe that? I mean, since you didn’t mention “millions of people will lose their insurance, or have their premiums doubled” as a “con” I have to either conclude that you believed him, or you were just being willfully dishonest. Which is worse, I do not know. Age old question. Is it worse to be totally ignorant or a liar? Oh, and if you are looking for a good blog you should check out themattwalshblog.com. His rants at least follow some form of logic. And he is neither a liar nor ignorant.

    • LC

      How about now? Any “cons” yet? Please humor me, were you really caught off guard by all of these real “cons”? Or are you just on board with willful deception like our fearless leader?

      • “How about now? Any “cons” yet?”

        Excellent point. We should write an update article to this. Please help me formulate a list of all of the cons. So far, I can think of these:

        1) The website has technical problems, which has never happened before in the history of the entire internet
        2) People with cheap substandard insurance will have to replace it with insurance that actually works. OUTRAGEOUS!
        3) Health insurance companies are scamming people into thinking they have to pay more than they really need to pay, which is also completely Obama’s fault!
        4) Men might have to pay for chick stuff, which is totally uncool, bro

        What else, LC? Help me complete a list and I will credit you in the next article.

        • LC

          Cheap? And substandard? You just described my car, my home computer, my metro pcs phone, but guess what? You buy what you can afford! i know that is foreign to libs, because “thats not fair!!!! waaaaahhhhh!!!!!”

          • I see now that you are a secret liberal sleeper-cell who has planted herself here to convert people to loving Obamacare.

            This must be the case, because your argument makes no sense. In fact, there are actually LOTS of government regulations that control the quality of your car, your computer, and your phone. There are government regulations that prevent a person from selling you cars that are “cheaper” that do not have seatbelt, or that are made out of cardboard. There are government regulations that prevent you from driving your car down the street if it is liable to blow up at any moment. By comparing buying insurance to buying a car, you have just ADVOCATED FOR OBAMACARE!!!!

            Obamacare is not all that different from the laws which say that a person isn’t allowed to sell you — nor are you allowed to drive — a car that has no seatbelt, or no airbags, or an engine that is likely to explode every time you drive it. Those things are actually ILLEGAL, even if a car dealer could otherswise give you a “really good deal” on a cheaper car.

            So, weirdly, with that example you have actually given A BETTER PRO-OBAMACARE EXPLANATION than anyone else commenting here.

            I see right through you, ma’am!

            YOU have liberal bias!

  11. Adam

    A lot of very good comments here. One thing I would recommend is that personal examples mean little. We all know someone who is positively affected by Obamacare (if we are liberals). We all know someone who is negatively affected by Obamacare (if we are conservatives).

    I believe the simple truth is in the math. You can’t spend more in health care claims and expect to pay less in premiums.

    How do you spend more?
    You cover more people who cannot otherwise afford to pay for it.
    You increase the covered population of pre-existing conditions.
    You increase the covered student age population.
    You legislate coverage that the market does not demand.

    I might need to explain legislating coverage. Individual coverage often demands looking only for coverage that you need. If you are over 50, you want your insurance to pay for Mammograms and Colonoscopies, you you look for policies that cover those things. What you don’t want to pay for is maternity. You look for policies that don’t force you to pay for maternity.

    There is so much more. I actually wrote a book about it, back in 2002, long before I even knew the name President Obama. I’ll stop here … before I get carried away.

    • Una

      I’ve never heard of a health plan that selectively covers very narrow sets of health needs, except for catastrophic, vision, and dental. I’ve never heard of maternity insurance. Does such a thing exist, really? Genuinely curious. If so, you will have taught me something new.
      When I shop for health insurance, I want something that will cover me pretty much no matter what happens. That’s kind of the point of health insurance, right? It’s a pool to collect and diffuse risk across all demographic strata. Sure, there are some procedures that insurance companies won’t pay for, usually things that are outrageously expensive, experimental treatments, or therapies that are currently considered unnecessary or ineffective by mainstream medicine. But for the vast majority of health conditions, having general health insurance in today’s medical environment is really important. (I wish it weren’t, but that’s another topic.)

  12. […] 2 (ALMOST THERE): Obamacare: pros and cons, 26 Jul […]

  13. Jay Chong

    The “cons” could have been better defined than the quotes you used. The individual mandate is highly controversial, as is the contraception mandate. However, you did capture many of the upsides of Obamacare. http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2014

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